Rudy Giuliani offered up a new explanation for why President Trump’s legal team is hesitant for him to talk with special counsel Robert Mueller in the Russia investigation. Trump could perjure himself because “truth isn’t truth.”

Yes, Giuliani said, “truth isn’t truth.”

The assertion is perhaps one of the more ridiculous attempts the Trump team has made to attack and undercut the Russia probe and explain their bending relationship with the truth, alongside “alternative facts” from Kellyanne Conway and “what you’re seeing and what you’re reading is not what’s happening” from the president himself.

The former New York City mayor claimed that truth isn’t truth in an appearance today on NBC’s Meet the Press with Chuck Todd. Todd played for Giuliani a string of clips of him discussing whether or not Trump would sit for an interview with Mueller, showing how his story has changed over time.

At the start of the clip, Giuliani was saying Trump would talk for no more than two to three hours. By the end of the clip, he was saying Trump wouldn’t discuss obstruction charges, wouldn’t speak under oath, and, finally, asserting that Mueller already had all the answers he needed.

“I am not going to be rushed into having Trump testify so that he gets trapped into perjury,” Giuliani said when asked by Todd about why Trump’s legal team’s negotiations with Mueller have dragged on. “And when you tell me that, you know, he should testify because he’s going to tell the truth and he shouldn’t worry, well that’s so silly because it’s somebody’s version of the truth. Not the truth.”

“Truth is truth,” Todd interjected.

“No, it isn’t truth. Truth isn’t truth,” Giuliani replied.

“Mr. Mayor … this is going to become a bad meme,” Todd interjected.

Giuliani went on to say he is skeptical of having Trump speak with Mueller because the special counsel may believe former FBI Director James Comey or another witness’s account of events if it contradicts the president.

 

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